God can't go to places that are corrupted? This fight against evil thing can't be going well; as soon as the devil walks into the room God will then have to leave.
Jesus lives! I saw him this morning. I was having breakfast with Elvis, Buddy Holly, and Stanley Kubrick. Jesus was in the next booth. There he was, right in the middle of the smoking section of Denny's, sitting with Bigfoot, Polyphemus, and Bilbo Baggins, scarfing down a big plate of "moons over my hammy", and chain smoking Lucky Strikes. He leaned over and suggested that we kill all the men in the resturaunt, and enslave the women. I thought it was a good idea, but Stanley seemed to think it would be rude. So we all went to get haircuts together. We've decided to start a punk band. Me, Jesus, Bigfoot, Buddy Holly, Elvis, Stanley Kubrick and Polyphemous. We're going to call ourselves unprovoked Beating. We'll be on tour soon. Look for us when we come to your town.
A godÆs omnipotence is only limited to the imagination of those have invented him.
What if the president declared a National Day of Cursing God because He failed us on September 11? Americans would say, "You've overstepped your authority." That's how we feel when he promotes prayer.
Look at the posture of prayer. It is the posture of slavery, of bowing before your master. We are a proudly rebellious country. We kicked out the master. Now here comes the government telling us to humbly bow again.
And what will happen when "God" fails them again and again and again? There are many fools in the world - I say, let them have their gods! In the end, they'll still be wrong.
He gave you a "rule-book" that doesn't include all the rules, but instead asks you to follow what you think are the rules, based on faith. And then, if it seems odd or unfair, you are to suppress your questions and doubts because he dangles salvation over your head like a carrot. You are expected to follow a way a life without fully knowing everything about it and without asking questions. Sounds like the God you know is a masochist.
The only reasonable explanation for a Christian God is that he is one sick power-hungry insecure egomaniac. Homosexuals burn in Hell? What's that about? The guy invented dead rotting pussies and road kill. He thought up the idea for sh*it-eating and pigfu*cking. God is more obscene than the worst hardcore porn publisher. God is the manufacturer of every conceivable thing that is wrong with the world, because he fu*cking made the world.
Where is the sense of supposing a God sliding down to earth on a ladder with no steps to it, and then asking us to walk up minus the foothold?
One of their teachers said to me lately that all my people, about 800,000,000 Hindus every fifty years, must assuredly go to hell; and at the same time placed before me a picture of their heaven, asking me to 'flee from the wrath to come!' and escape the horrible vindictiveness of their 'God of Love!
In your magical mystery myth, you would have us think that a deity cut himself into three pieces and sent one to earth to be "sacrificed." I use " " because it's not really a sacrifice if Jesus isn't really dead and he knew he wouldn't be. Also, you would have us think that your deity loves everyone on earth moreso than anyone else does or could, even though he will willingly send a majority of them to hell to burn in eternal torment. If he loves people so much, and he doesn't want them to go to hell, why create them in the first place? He knows we're going to burn, yet he keeps churning us out. It all comes off a bit too much like a crazed, abusive husband ("I love you so much, I have to kill you."). His desire for unflagging worship and dedication while simultaneously casting the remainder of mankind to the infinite flame is indicative of a tyrannical, egomaniacal madman. Certainly not worthy of worship or dedication.
"Where was God on September 11?" Why ask that question now? Where was God during the Holocaust? Where was God during World War I? WWII? Vietnam? The Old Slave South? The Crusades? I could go on like this but the questions would never end. God has been conspicuously absent during millions of gruesome, ghastly deaths. Where the hell has he been all these bloody centuries? On a permanent coffee break? Or just AWOL?
Mom: Come on Jimmy, let's go out and play with your Jesus-KiteTM.
Jimmy: but Moooom, all the other kids make fun of me because of it. Why is Jesus standing like that anyway?
Announcer:(voice-over) Well Jimmy, that picture is a reconstruction of Jesus' Crucifiction: it's almost like the Lord, Our Father, Jesus Christ is being nailed an hung from your very own nylon toy on a watercoloury psychedelic acid-trip made to remind you eternally why Jesus and christians are creepy as all fu*cking hell.
Jimmy: Mommy, I'm scared of Jesus.
Announcer: Also comes with the Jesus Night-LightTM: So creepy, you'll never sleep again! Two blaring watts of Jesus, smiling and giving the thumbs up, while he watches your chidren sleep . . .and plots . . .and plots.
"Oh Sh*it!" -- Jesus upon opening his fortune cookie at the last supper.
Thou shalt not eat green eggs and ham - obey thy God, I-am-that-I-am.
Millions murdered by Christians and we're unable to call it a death cult.
If you do not follow Santa, you follow the Grinch.
A man with a gun is less dangerous than a man with a Bible and a gun.
Of people born in 1809, 100% who believed in God are dead!
I'm having a hard time swallowing this. Can I have a dogma bag?
One wonders if soon these mouth breathers are going to start uttering "Under God" at inappropriate times just for the sake of saying it:
Fast Food Worker (with thick southern accent): Welcome to Popeye's. Can I take your order?
Motorist (also with a thick southern accent): Yeeeeeah. I'd like some o' them smuthird bizgits UNDER GOD and some mashed taters.
Fast Food Worker: Anything to drink?
Motorist: How about some UNDER GOD large UNDER GOD Coke UNDER GOD
Fast Food Worker: That'll be $8.97 UNDER GOD
Motorist: UNDER GOD!
Fast Food Worker: UNDER GOD!
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!
The 11th Commandment: "Killing in God's name is OK"
To us, the more we are told we are wrong about something the more we are prepared to consider that maybe we are wrong and we need to make sure our position really is as good as we thought. To them, the more they are told they are wrong the more they see proof that the whole world is a satanic commie conspiracy to do down the righteous (i.e. them) and this proves how right they must be and how important it is that they keep banging their heads against the brick wall of sanity. In other words, getting slapped down in court will only encourage them further! You see similar crazy "logic" among other nutcases. Consider the UFO crackpots. How do they know that alien abductions really happen? Because the Government goes to so much effort to cover it up? And how do they know it is being covered up? Because there is no credible evidence to support their view. In the end their positions both boil down to "The more I am proved wrong, the more right I must be". You can't fight that with logic or lawsuits. It is time to call the men in white coats! Alternatively, if we could just persuade the aliens to abduct the crackpots, and KEEP them, we would be sorted.
"God told me" is no excuse for stupidity.
Before I so debase myself, and bend my knee to kiss the ass of your fu*cked up war god, I will grab your god by his murderous fu*cking neck and squeeze until he makes amends for all of his evil transgressions. This god of yours claims to be so fu'cking perfect, when I find him to be one of the sickest excuses for a sentient being that was ever fabled to have existed.
Promise Keepers are just Klansmen without the hoods.
I do have a close, godless, heathen, hard core atheist buddy who was an infantryman in the Corps during Nam. His experience taught him that the more religious people he came across were usually the more cowardly, and generally died faster than the less religious Marines. His observation was that fundamentalism was simply another manifestation of gutlessness because those of his fellow marines who prayed the loudest and the most often were the ones who most often cowered in their fighting holes when the enemy came, and were, therefore, more frequently overrun and killed by the enemy. Interesting, ain't it? My godless buddy? Oh, he came home with a Bronze and two Purples and ended up as a Drill Instructor He's an honest to god decorated war hero and according to him, he never saw any god thingy with holes in its hands running around the jungles of Southeast Asia.
You appear to be upset because you're stupid and others aren't.
You're "In Christ"? If you are, then you should check your local criminal laws. Last time I checked, being in a corpse is necrophilia. which is generally illegal anywhere where dentures are not sold in pawn shops. No, your pawn shop is not normal just because it's normal in your neck of the woods. In the more industrialized and modern sections of the world today, pawn shops don't sell dentures and sheep lingerie. Did you use a condom? Sex with a two thousand year old corpse can be kind of rough.
May God have mercy on your brain so that you don't ever glimpse the slightest hint of reality. Oh, wait... He already did that. I guess some prayers really are answered.
King Kong died for your sins.
(In response to ôLooking from the top of the Washington Monument several landmarks form a cross.ö)
Looking from the Christian Library, which houses the one and only book ever written than Christians haven't tried to burn yet, you can see "The National Enquirer" listed as "Reference Material." Looking from the Earth, Magellan claimed that he could see that the world was spherical. Of course Jesus sent him to hell for that.
I curse you in the name of Myself. -- Jesus Christ
Lets say a parent raised their children not to disobey him(her), but they did anyway. Would you say an appropriate punishment would be to rent a tree trunk caliber wood chipper and *slowly* push them through it feet first? What if the waited until they grew up and had families of their own and then sent soldiers to kill them and rape their children? Would that be an appropriate punishment? What if they drown them? What if they damned them and their descendants generation after generation after generation ad infinitum into slavery? What if they stoned them to death? What if they nailed them to a stake, violated them with hot pokers and hacked their breasts off and *slowly* pulled their arms out them let them bleed to death? Would those things be appropriate punishments? Then, when trying to justify their ridiculously unjust "punishments" the parent told you, "My children are my property and I will do to them as I see fit." Would you conclude that they "loved" them?
Dear Santa: Please send me your list of naughty girls!
Love is the same weather it exists only for a microsecond or all eternity. You know someone loves you because their actions reflect it. God says that if you don't swear allegiance to his son, he will kill you, throw your "eternal spirit" into the cosmic blast furnace, close and lock the door and swallow the key. Making things worse, is that there are several religions' claiming to represent him in the way he see fit(Muslim, catholic, Jewish, protestant, JehovahÆs witness and of course Christianity) and if you don't pick the right one, youÆre screwed anyway. If the bible is correct, then he will kill 90% of the worlds population, take all of their souls and dunk them in heavenly gasoline and light a match. In "eternal" terms what he does to people after they die is FAR worse the what he does to the living! Face it: he treats the living like cannon fodder and the dead like eternal kindling with no regard for being "just" or consideration for what it feels like to be consumed by fire for eternity - just how we treat our possessions.
Crock of SH'IT.COM found. Reformatting brain. Fundy level exceeded...
If there were only one god he'd have an ulcer by now.
I've come to find Christians spirituality in faith rather odd. Not only is spirituality not well defined, but Christians act like faith is the philosophers stone of spirituality. It's as if by merely standing there in church and saying I believe in god no matter what and then clinching your fists, holding your mouth shut till you go red and just holding tight for dear life, that now youÆre happy forever! I can see the spirituality of keeping faith that thing's will turn out okay. As in thing's like dedication and perseverance, but to act like this is it! This is all you need to be spiritual! Christians faith in god reminds me of kids who just decide to do whatever they want to do no matter what anybody and anything happens.
I stubbed my toe for your sins, Timmy, worship me!
It is clear from scripture that Jews didn't drive the nails through his flesh. If we are going to start looking for *other* causes of his death than the actual crucifixion, God's requisite that bloodshed is necessary for atonement tops the list. If God had not created the world, or had not allowed it to fall, or had simply ignored sin and let us suffer the physical consequences of our own misbehavior, or had chosen to forgive and save everyone without sacrificing his son, Jesus wouldn't have died. In fact, Jesus' death was part of God's perfect plan, completely God's choice, and exactly what God wanted to happen, was it not? Or was God acting under some principle or directive higher than himself that *required* Jesus to be sacrificed to ensure our salvation?
Coincidence? No. Cthulhu.
We've collected the largest number of outcasted, child-molesting Pastors who are waiting to "counsel" you as soon our e-doors open. Don't delay, let Jesus rape you today.Our Choir boys are ripe and ready for salvation.
You have to believe as a child. Only as a child do you have ignorance of the true facts; ignorance of the inconsistences the violence, the false history, the contradictions. A child which has no mind to deal with the nonsense of scripture, so they need to be spoon-fed selected verses which keeps them happy.
WWJD= ôWhere would Jesus dump?ö
So, the threat has been made by Jesus to exterminate those who would not hear his words in a way far worse than the fate of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. This establishes both premeditation and malice. Since the dawn of civilization, killing another human being has been a crime. So, why is this so hard for you to understand? God spends the bulk of the Old Testament practicing hate crimes, ritual torture and mass murder. Jesus is the human spawn of God, or the physical incarnation of God, depending upon which religion you follow. Jesus made a threat to slaughter violently anyone who didn't want to listen to him. It's petulant, temperamental, and cruel beyond natural proportions. It is not the sort of thing a man of peace says. It's the sort of comment a weak, terrified, malicious dictator would make.
Caution: 85.4% of xians are having a bad day and will be obnoxious.
Now, if I believed (or more precisely, if the authors of Genesis believed) that the sun and moon were just a short ways up, and that beyond them there was God's heaven, and that when it rained the water came from God's heaven, all this firmament stuff would make perfect sense. In fact, I find this a lot in the bible. If I believed the earth were flat, then several much-debated bible verses would make perfect sense. If I believed that heaven were close enough to reach by building a tower, then the Tower of Babel story would make sense. If I believed that there were so few species of animals in the world, or even in one region of the world, that two of each of them would fit on a small boat, then many of the flood verses would make perfect sense. But few believers are willing to admit the possibility that the authors of these stories believed those things. Instead, skeptics are expected to believe that it is a just a coincidence that the authors wrote stories that *would* make perfect sense without interpolation, if they *did* believe those things.
Born-Again-Radical-Fundamentalists..... B.A.R.F's
I believe I have it down now. God is good, because, in the case of god only, what ever god does is automatically defined as good. What man does, on the other hand, is good only when he follows the rules of god, but not when he follows the rules after god, unknown to man, has changed the rules, in such cases man is evil and deserves to be punished. Of course man is inherently evil anyway, because the first man, in total innocence, committed a sin. The first man was set up by god so that it was a certainty he would commit this sin, such a thing would ordinarily be evil, but it was good, because god did it; and everything god does is automatically good. After the first man was duped by god into committing the first sin god was mad at him. In order for god to stop being mad god had god killed (only god is not dead), and this made everything alright; except when god decides it is not.
Born again people don't seem to get as much oxygen the second time.
The point of the story of the tower of Babel is that they were already trying, so he kicked over the anthill. Why doesn't he do this again, when we have a much more substantial ability to break the bonds of earth? All the planets in the solar system couldn't be made into enough bricks to make a tower tall enough to reach where Voyager 1 already is. Why wasn't NASA crushed a few budgets ago? Yuri Gagarin got higher than any stone-age construction could have hoped to get, why wasn't he stopped?
Please. God is sending me to hell because YOU don't have an answer?
Instead of praying for others, try thinking for yourself.
It's not an assumption to feel that it is fairly self-evident that Jesus did not visit anyone that died before his birth. It would take a big stretch of apologist imagination to jimmy up a method that allowed Jesus to visit, say, Tenocentitla in 100 BC. We also assume that you, personally are innocent of the Wounded Knee Massacre, without asking if you were ever in the US Cavalry. It would be difficult to hold you responsible for crimes or other actions that took place before your grandfather was born. We probably assume you never owned a slave in pre-Civil-War Atlanta. We tend to assume you did not shoot anyone at the behest of Al Capone. We are not holding our and your assumptions at different value just because you're pro-theist. We aren't even asking for solid proof that Jesus visited Walks-With-Granite in North Lakota Territory before he died in the Year 2, just (1) Any sort of way he COULD have? (God's own time machine?) (2) What makes you think that? The bible does say that if anyone seeks God, he will find Him. This is useful, if and only if, God has appeared to other tribes as Raven, as Amaterasu, as Thunder Bird, as Shiva, as Kali, as Ptah, as Old Man, and so on. And if Jesus has appeared to all, why is his message only available from one tribe?
Better haggis than Jesus.
Supposing the existence of sin, and the God necessary for its existence, consider the following accounting. Responsibility can only derive from the inherent ability of a being to effect a change upon any system upon which a moral burden hinges. You can not hold a hamster responsible for burning down your home when it knocks over the iron you left on this morning. That would be your burden. An omniscient and omnipotent being would be well aware of any potential flaws or critical failures inherent from the beginning state of his system. You do not need to agree, thank you. Since God is the progenitor and custodian of the universe you claim he inhabits, it is He, not his creation, that would be to blame for "sin". What will I do with my sin? I will enjoy it for all its worth, don't you?
Annoy Christians: count their gods in front of them.
Who am I to question this god? Who am I to question Hitler? Who am I to question anyone, thing or idea that is violent, commits genocide, even the idea of a god that would torture souls for an eternity? No, god is not a good parent. He couldn't hold a candle to myself and others who love their children and teach them without violence to find their place in this world. I and other are not absentee parents, our children know us and know what we expect of them. And if they make mistakes we help them learn from their mistakes. We try to be concise in our teachings and not leave things up to interpretation. No, your god is not good, he is evil and does not deserve any praise. Your god makes your devil look like an angel of mercy. That is if your god was real. And yes I will question your god, what's he going to do strike me dead? Even if he could I would still question him. If it wasn't for human beings questioning and rebelling against tyranny we would still be back in the dark ages. If he is real, someone needs to question his methods of madness. Or grab him by the ear and make him come down here and make his presence known.
And then Satan said to God, "But where will YOU find a lawyer?"
"Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good". Is it possible that God was being grimly humorous or perhaps drunken at the time? Other experts have seen plague, famine, war, torture, and slavery as something less than "very good". Maybe "very good" means something different depending on your viewpoint? After all, it would take a "very good" razor to slit a throat, but in general, the consequence of the action are "very evil"! Or maybe it simply can't be taken seriously, like when someone is paid to endorse a product... "Drink Zippo, it's very good!"
If you think that rejection is a validation for Christ, then look at how the whole world rejected the ones who mutilated themselves and died to catch the comet. We rejected Koresh. We rejected Star Trek (but it was resurrected!).
Why is God described as the source of evil? Why does he send evil spirits to coerce people? To answer why he is the source of evil is an easy one. He claims to be the source of everything, which incidentally, includes evil. Why does he send evil spirits? well, an answer for this is more complicated. Looking at scripture, we see that he sends evil spirits to cause suffering, he sends lying spirits to spread deceptions. He doesn't want everyone to be saved. add to that his vanity and jealousy and a combination all these (and other) traits of God require a psychoanalysis of his mind. As I don't have a degree in psychology, I can only go by samples of work from professional psychologists and my own mature studies into the field. The verdict doesn't look very good for God. All the evidence points to a criminally insane mind.
Creationists put the "Duh?" in Fundamentalism, and Fundamentalism puts the "fun" back in dysfunctional.
If God disciplines so well, and is so good, why hasn't he taken care of "Satan" by now? Why does he rain down fire and brimstone so readily upon sinners in the Bible, and yet we have any need of a secular justice system today? Can't god just make all the bad guys disappear from existence, or burst into flame, once his discipline is needed? And, again, why not at *least* take out Satan?
Or does Satan not actually exist?
Or does *God* not actually exist to get rid of Satan?
Or, most likely, neither exist, and are merely products of the human mind that we made up to give ourselves excuses for things we couldn't explain at the time, or didn't want to own up to.
Sorry, dude, but the "Holy Spirit" guides people to lots of places besides Christianity. What, do you think 1 billion Muslims and 1 billion Hindus are just kidding themselves? Don't you realize they had the same experiences of "God" that you have?
How can it be that God's revelation to us is so weak, vague or cloudy that it could be misunderstood or be confused as something else? The bible implies quite the opposite. Did Adam know that God was talking to him? Did Noah know that God was talking to him? How about Moses - did he know that God helped him and his people out of Egypt? And the prophets - did they know that God was helping them prophecize? They all seemed to know beyond a doubt that God was intervening. Why should his revelation to us be any different?
A god is only as capable as its inventor.
Job had every right to curse God for what he was going through. This is nowhere near being admirable. This is blind faith and moronic devotion to an extreme degree. God and Satan (the Accuser) are literally toying with this man, testing him, seeing how far they can go with him before he gives up. This is just a game for these heavenly beings, but for humans, it's torture. Why should we want to serve a god who so readily hands us over to destruction and pain on a wager? Why would we want to eagerly participate as a pawn in this cosmic chess game? Do you like the idea of being a simple game piece on a big game board? I certainly don't, and this story does nothing but inspire contempt in me for God.
Your god's an @#%$ and you are created in his image.
ôBut you can't escape that one day we will all stand before the throne of the Lord.ö This 'god' is described as having a throne and kingdom, heralds, etc. everyone who supposedly had a vision of god saw him sitting on his throne commanding servants as a king. all of these symbolisms are from the monarchal system. That should tell you right away, god is invented by people who only knew the monarchy system. ShouldnÆt this god be more like a president with a senate and oval office, a mainframe computer for keeping records (instead of seals/scrolls/books). What need would a god have for physical things anyways? Apparently, he is still using that old throne, and old system of record-keeping seals/scrolls/books), and angels to deliver messages (hey god, haven't you heard? We have satellite phones now). Gee, one would think that an all powerful god can modernize with the rest of us.
The strangest thing happened last night. I was sitting in my room eating Ritz crackers, and suddenly I felt a feeling of peace and contentment emanating from the cracker crumbs, which began to radiate a soothing power of undeniable comfort and warmth as they fell into my lap. This feeling was obviously the almighty spirit of the great North-African Penguin (don't say they don't exist just because no one has ever found any evidence that they do), letting me know that It was watching over me and my holy cracker crumbs. It really happened, honest. Just take my word for it. I can't really explain it, you just have to believe me. It's obviously the truth. You had to be there.
If Christians are good enough, they get their prayers answered. But then they that 'good enough' is an impossible goal. Then what would the point be? Why even make the offer if no one can achieve it? It makes Christianity look like a pyramid scam. At entry level, you get to feel good about your relationship with God. At Perfect Christian Level, you get all your prayers answered. No one ever gets PCL, but there you go. It's one of those 'impossible goals' that keep the work force out there, recruiting other Christians with more unachievable goals and unfulfilled promises. I wondered where 'Go To Heaven' falls, above or below the unreal goal line....it relates because it is another goal that depends on your being a good 'enough' Christian to get into Heaven. What's the point of striving to be the GLC, if it's not a possible goal? Why is the offer made? Isn't the hope of heaven sufficient motivation to be good and follow God's commandments? He's gotta add further enticements that he won't fulfill?
Sh*it! Conservatives! Looks like we'll have to blast our way out!
If God is what you think God is - Why does he need something human like a book to keep records in - is it self updating - what are the accounting procedures? Why isn't it a scroll? A stone tablet? A diamond wall? Who binds this book? What are the pages made of? Is there an index?
Job was a misguided person. The deity he loved and put so much faith in turned on him like a pit bull on an infant. "Thanks for all your love and devotion, Job. But I've got this bet with Satan that you'll break down if I royally screw up your life. So, let's play!" Through it all, Job persists in his devotion when he has no reason to. Loyalty's great and all, but in some cases, you have to defy orders. In some cases, you have to go your own way. And when is a better time to break ranks than when your commanding officer is killing your family, destroying your property, and coming within inches of killing you. This story explicitly displays God's cruelty and Job's stupidity.
According to the LifeÆs Battle website their game teaches the seven "universal Christian principles" I mean, two Christian principles, okay. Three principles, maybe. But seven? Come on! Even JC himself couldn't cram seven Christian principles into a game without making the player feel like they were trapped in a fun-house roller coaster where rabid fundamentalists pop out of the shadows and beat them with 200-pound iron Bibles. Strangely enough, that option seems more appealing that attempting to play this game again.
If Satan knows that he has to lose in the end anyway, why should he fight so hard? Oh, okay, I forgot, he's so evil that he gets all hung-up and stupid about it.
If God is perfect, then everything he must make must be perfect. You cannot claim to be a perfect computer programmer, if none of your programs work. God made angels, (1/3 he sent to hell), Satan (he was "cast out"), and humans (who,"sinned against him" by eating a piece of fruit! Oh the horror!) So, from that, we see God isn't perfect. Next, in order to "create" something, it must be a manifestation of the will. You can't make something and not know what it is. (ôHey guys, I accidentally invented a telephone, isn't it cool?ö) Creating something is NOT the same as discovering something. If God created "Hell", a place of eternal suffering, then God is an eternally tormented "thing". If God created Satan, and Satan is eternally evil, then God is eternally evil. The paradigm falls flat right there. There is no further arguments for God.
And I have the exact same personal relationship with my kitchen sink. I pray to it. sometimes it says yes, sometimes it says no. It never talks back to me but answers me in ways in my life. Like the other day I asked the kitchen sink if I could get a letter in the mail, and guess what I got one. How is your relationship with God any different than mine with my kitchen sink? My sink has shown me the same love your god has shown you. If God never audibly answers you, what's the difference?
(Spoken as Tas the Tasmanian devil) "God needs BLOOD! God gets BLOOD even if he has to do it himself. God need more BLOOD. BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD! God love BLOOD!"
Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
Why do Christians have to tell us crap like,"Repent! Or you will burn in hell."? Why can't God tell us that himself? Is it because a dummy can only talk when his ventriloquist is nearby?
Since God is SO good (glorious, even) it makes sense that he wouldn't want to associate with wretches like us. Somehow, salvation through Jesus makes it possible for God to endure having us around (although we're still not glorious - I guess God puts a clothes pin on his nose.) Ya know, I really like most people - I think they're pretty nice mostly. Plenty of faults, but good-hearted and well-meaning. Too bad God can't enjoy them as they are without some hokey blood sacrifice. But then, He's awful good (glorious and all). Too bad. It's his loss.
When I hear someone say they want to save my soul, I reach for my gun.
If you wanted to live in a fantasy world, why not one where youÆre on top?
Unpopular Bible Fact: Christians are bound by OT law. (Mt. 5:17-20)
To me there are *three* options: they are actually hearing the voice of God (unlikely); they are hearing an actual voice but it does not belong to God (also unlikely); or they are not hearing any voice and just think they are hearing a voice because they are mentally ill (likely). Does "crazy" fit into your vocabulary at all, or is "crazy" just another word for "deceived" to you?
Those who have loved God most have loved men least.
600 years ago, the idea that the earth was flat was consistent with biblically-based doctrine. 300 years ago, the idea that angels floated on clouds and played harps was consistent with biblically-based doctrine. 200 years ago, the idea the leeches could suck out the evil demons in people's blood was consistent with biblically-based doctrine. 150 years ago, the ownership of slaves was consistent with biblically-based doctrine. 80 years ago, the idea that evolution was not possible was consistent with biblically-based doctrine. So which of TODAY'S beliefs, that are reportedly consistent with TODAY'S interpretation of the Bible, are wrong? Are you saying that none of them are? Are you saying that NOW and TODAY we finally have it right?
ôLORDö stands for Lowered Objectiveness Resulting from Dumbness.
By all means, preachers. Tell your followers how their eternally just and loving deity is sending the majority of mankind to infinite damnation for their finite crimes on Earth. Oh, and don't leave out the unquenchable fires and the flesh-eating worms.
(Genesis 15:5) "and he(god), brought him(Abraham) forth abroad, and said, 'Look now
toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them';and he(god) said unto him(Abraham), 'so shall thy seed be.'" Key words are how many can you count, so that takes out all the milky way band of stars leaving you with the number of stars any astronomer has ever been able to count with the unaided eye, which is six thousand. Was Abraham particularly athletic?
If God wants everything to be set aright, and God is truly omnipotent, then there must be some *other* thing that God wants *even more* than to for everything to be set aright. Any idea on what that other thing might be?
There was the off-limits tree of knowledge. Snake, Eve, Adam, fig leaves, well known story. God comes back, and sees that they have knowledge of good and evil (and nudity). Says (to the others?) that if A&E eat of the tree of life, they shall become immortal like us(?), so he has to prevent that. Threw them out of the garden, and placed an angel (angels?) at the entrance to the garden with a big flaming sword to keep them out. Just aesthetically, the 2nd tree(of Life) is a big hoary thumb in the line of the story. It doesn't flow. It's like the guilty character that appears out of nowhere at the end of the mystery novel, despite all the clues about the maid. (or maybe it's just that I only remember clues about the french maid.......)
You must have been praying to some cheap, off-brand Lord.
So the argument looks like that: There is no evidence that Christianity is true, but we should believe in Christianity anyway; this is just a test from God. First of all, this argument could be used for any other religion. There is no evidence that Islam is true, but we should believe in Islam anyway; this is just a test from Allah. Secondly, this implies that God is intentionally making sure that there is no evidence, so that some people can go to hell. I don't know how you call this, but I call it an extreme case of cruelty and injustice.
What would be the difference between a universe where a godÆs existence was evident to you, and one where no god existed but you have deluded yourself into thinking that it does?
Context. That seems to be the word of the week around here. It almost sounds as if any disagreement at all with what our new friend says is enough to prove conclusively that the person disagreeing has taken something out of context.
You are making a positive statement therefore the burden of proof lies on you like a cross on a hateful deity.
Many believe that God is all powerful, can do pretty much what he wants to do, which means if God wanted to can the whole universe, the heaven and hell thing (the whole bit) and sit by himself for several infinities there is not a whole lot we can do about it, pray as you might, believe all you want, etc., God says big deal so I made a promise, but I changed my mind, zap and everything is gone.
You have learned to emulate the sliminess of the pulpit very well.
Have you cared to take any inventory of how much of GOD'S actions steered the course of mankind as per the Bible? God's wisdom of time didn't stop God from banishing Adam and Eve, appear to people, enlightened mankind so that the earth would be spared from an all consuming flood, confound the human population via languages in the Tower of Babel, send spirits to deceive, harden Pharaoh's heart, torture Job, kill the Amelkites, nor has it stopped God from judging people to go to heaven or hell. Again, if free will exists, then God would have nothing to do with influencing it, it would be the sole decision of the individual. Furthermore, if God knows the outcome of said individualÆs decision AND was responsible for creating EVERYTHING (temporal, matter, ethereal, etc.), what is there to "judge"?
Hail to the sun god! He is the fun god! Ra! Ra! Ra!
The Bible reminds me of a little kids story. Little kids who's just been beat up by bigger ones: "And then, God's going to strike you down with lightening, and then, he's gonna' pierce you with arrows, and then, he's gonna smash your bones against rocks, and then....."
God says if we tithe $1 million, he'll give us the Mars probe back.
By what code of morality does your god abide by to be considered omni-benevolent? Is it his own? If so, what is to stop him from declaring that blue underwear is sin? What's to stop him from declaring that mathematics is Satan's tool? What's to stop him from declaring that sex with children is quite all right? Or that rape is OK? "God wouldn't say such evil things are good?," many would say. But if God says it's good, then it follows that such acts are no longer evil. But God is omni-benevolent (all -good)and, as such, he cannot declare such acts to be good. But if god is held to some "code of morality"-- i.e., a "higher power" -- then he is not the "highest power" as most believers claim.
God, by definition, is an atheist. He does not believe in a higher power (he is the highest power) and does not believe in a god. Does he burn in a lake of fire?
Perhaps we should make some video games with biblical values? We could theme them as follows: Hey sis how ææbout you me and dad make some babies! (after all Lot was a righteous guy). When 700 isn't enough, how to score more concubines (we should all be like King Solomon). HereÆs a game: kill every one who is different from you! (Leviticus, the whole chapter). You could make a game where if you mess up you chop off the body part that was responsible (as Jesus suggests we do when we sin). Sim-bible: cause your evil enemies to eat their own children! Control them with plagues and fear!, if they donÆÆt work out like you planed just killÆÆem all in some kind of disaster like a flood or rain of fire. (Most of the Old Testament). How about a fighting game where young woman kill men with tent stakes(Some where in exodus)? Who needs violence in video games when the kids have the Bible to read.
The way these theists salivate over their gods, it makes you wonder why they don't skip the middleman by just casting a big, golden calf and then stamping "Jesus" on its forehead.
This is why I'll never understand organized religion, in fact, the only evil thing I see the Devil doing is not loving God, its God and his followers who commits genocide, drowns people in a flood, gives them plagues, etc. For the Devil to be a big bad guy why is he only in two chapters of the Bible, most I see him doing wrong is giving Eve an apple and tempting man away from God's will? He doesn't bewitch anyone, murder anyone, rape children; he doesn't do anything horrible at all, except not obey and WORSHIP GOD. I don't really see him doing anything, in fact most of the @#%$ I see that is wrong doing, is done by God hurting man in the form of "punishment" for not worshiping him correctly.
Feed 'em all to Cthulhu.
Were you a jerk before you found Jesus, or did you wake up after a traffic accident with brain damage and suddenly discover that you believed that the torture murder of an innocent man was the answer to all the worlds problems? You people are really sick. Suppose Jesus had been impaled instead of crucified, would you idiots walk around with little "Jesus-Pops" hanging around your necks? Saviors on a stick, as it were. What's the difference, one instrument of torture is just as sick as any other. What flavors do you think would be good for Jesus-pops, anyone?
Sure, my god exists! I carved him from wood myself.
I will sit here and say God please, please, strike me dead as I speak for saying I don't believe in you. Duh de duh, well God I'm waiting.....................Still here. That's because there is no god to strike me dead. And there's no Satan to be saying "Heh, I've got him where I want him." Neither of these characters exist. Why can't people like you see that?
Don't blame me: I voted for Satan.
Why is it so important to God that we only praise him and believe in him? I mean if you were God wouldn'tÆÆt you have some message or something, a funny new joke everyday, you know, show up at a couple-a parties now and then? Maybe the religionists should change their stance, after all nothing screams "I AM FAKE!" like hollow threats from a supposedly all powerful creator-destroyer god. I mean if God exists what the hell is he doing? Is he a drunk? Does he really need morons to wonder door to door and preach the good news? The news is no news. If God were real, he would probably think 99% of his current followers were assholes.
Defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign & elected!
And just what kind of freedoms do you expect to enjoy in heaven? And what will you be doing when people you know are being burned and tortured? And just what kind of music and movies are you going to enjoy when you become bored? Maybe your idea of fun is singing praises to God 24-7, endlessly telling some deity how much you love him 24-7, and what will you do knowing some of the people you knew and talked to, worked with, are being tortured by your loving God forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever. When will you yell "Stop, enough is enough?" Or will you be as barbaric as that God you worship?
"Jesus" can talk to me any time it wants to if it exists. So far it hasn't shown any inclination. Instead, all I hear is other HUMANS telling me what I should believe. And we all know how reliable they are.
God's inability to keep the peace in heaven is what ultimately led to mans downfall here on Earth, yet people continue to look to God to solve the very problems God created in the first place.
Pssss! Jesus is dead. Pass it on.
If any of you can simple move a large mountain a small distance, say 5 or 10 miles, as the Bible says that all true Christians can routinely do, I will fall down and worship what ever god you chose to credit. You can have all of my money, as long as I live. I will forever fight for you god. If thatÆs too hard, you could maybe get together and heal so of the sick. LetÆs stick to terminally ill people. You know Aids patients and cancer patients, stuff like that. I fact if Christians are truly loving people, why donÆt they make a habit of going to hospitals and laying hands on people? You could make a fortune, or you could do it for free. If you guys could heal a statistically significant fraction of our nationÆs very ill people I have no doubt that your religion would quickly become the only game in town. Hell, if God got rid of all the churches that would do it for me.
Prove or disprove? The parking lot outside is full of the ghosts of all of my dead ancestors, now prove me wrong. Not silly enough? Okay, how about this, all of my laundry vanished off the clothesline, prove to me that Elvis didn't take it. Why should I be the one to prove or disprove anything? I'm not the one who is claiming that there is something extra in the universe. You're telling me that there is a tenth planet? Okay, show it to me. Or should I just have faith that its there?
I've found Jesus... He's in my trunk, you can see him for a buck.
If the universe is finite, and if the universe had a creator, and if that creator were super-special, with super powers, and if that creator were a really swell guy to go drinking with, (and we're talking about some enormous leaps in logic with absolutely no foundation in truth), then you take another leap and say this swell guy is actually, himself, infinite? How do you know you're not worshiping something that died millions of years ago?
Christ gave his lifesblood? You want to talk about people who gave their lifesblood then lets talk about the brave soldiers who got their heads blown off fighting for our freedom, lets talk about the brave firemen and police officers who put themselves in harms way every day to see to it that we have a safer environment to enjoy our freedoms, lets talk about those people who put themselves at risk in speaking up for all the social injustices that society becomes blind to. These people are the people who SPILL THEIR LIFESBLOOD! Your Jesus Christ according to you continues to live, RIGHT? Whats the big deal about him spilling his blood, he knew he would live on forever anyhow. This makes about as much sense as marveling over how BRAVE Superman is. How brave do you have to be when you know nothing can destroy you? Christ spilling his blood amounts to nothing more than a glass of water being tipped over. I will mourn and remember those people whose blood was precious to them, their families and the rest of us and will be eternally grateful to those brave souls WHO TRULY GAVE THEIR LIFESBLOOD!!
This is a prime example of why I wholeheartedly believe that the idea that if Satan fell from heaven it is obviously a Christian propaganda myth and lie, if this man is any indication of what it's like up there its obvious Lucifer didn't fall from grace...he jumped.
But how does this make God a tyrant?
1. Because the Bible says it's impossible for me NOT to sin, yet I'm still held responsible. So it is a mockery of justice to hold me responsible for my sins. God made me this way. He is responsible. He could have made me like Jesus instead.
2. Because God has committed far worse crimes than I ever will, but he is not held to the same standard. Instead "might makes right" applies to god. If you're Tim McVeigh, you get executed. But if you're God, you get off the hook. Astounding!
3. Because we seem to be up for punishment by torture for "crimes" our own society doesn't punish us for.
4. Because we don't inflict torture on our criminals. We have grown out of those barbaric methods (at least in this country).
No, you don't get it. God has already punished America by putting theists on the planet to @#%$ with us with moronic nonsense, cause problems, persecute others and then turn around and blame the @#%$ sinners.
A God of truth would not be a God prone to mistakes. A God of truth would not tell his people its okay to stone others to death for their sins one day and then turn around and send his mouth-piece to tell everyone, "Those without sin cast the first stone", the next. And since when does merely saying something is so make it so? How do you know this GOD you are praising is not some devilish alien beast playing a huge prank on the people of this small planet? How can you be sure about anything that deals with the SUPERNATURAL? And last but not least, if you KNOW you have absolute truth, as you defined it earlier, then what need is there for faith?
The Bible's accuracy will depend on how well you throw it.
You have reached God. All of our lines are busy at this time. Your call really isn't important to us at all, but don't tell that to anyone else. Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received. The current wait for a call to be answered is 1,997 years, give or take a century. Please wait while your call is ignored. Have a blessed day.
The First Amendment overrules The "First 'Commandment!
If some tyrant were to rule this country and decided he didn't like the way your Christian friends believed you would be the type of person who would stand tall and protest any brutal punishment that would befall them. On the other hand assuming for a second your Christian folks are correct and God does exist and now you face the prospect of being tortured in HELL, how many of your Christian friends would have the courage to stand up to god and protest such a barbaric act being waged against you?
So Pharaoh behaved badly therefore, this lunatic bastard god had no choice but to kill the babies? That is one EVIL bitch of a god. It can kill babies and then blame someone else. Sick perverted and extremely immoral by any human standard. ThatÆs why I prefer HUMAN standards.
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18) Wow! Talk about a giant ego, I never heard of anyone torturing someone else because he didn't know his name.
The Bible works best when you don't read it. That way you can avoid any problems like critical thinking. God doesn't like free thinkers so pray for a closed mind.
I have finally had it with these Christians who think that when man kills someone its so horrible but when God takes a life thatÆs totally different. Oh really! It's different when the Creator kills, is it? Well, not to the person who's being killed! They suffer the same pain and horror of God than they do at the hands of man! Murder is murder. Dead is dead. And you Christians who think its okay to give your god a free pass when it comes to killing are no better than the cold-blooded deity they worship.
Either God has no interest in human affairs, or he is the greatest underachiever ever.
They got the library at Alexandria. They are not getting mine!
What is up with your kick that science is a
religion? You seem very proud to put that label on
people who have no belief in mythical beings.
What religion is continuously updating and
revising itself based on research and discovery?
What religion puts its ideas up for review and
criticism by its peers and adjusts them
accordingly? what religion has no leader?
Science is self-admittedly imperfect -it knows it
doesn't have all the answers whereas religion
purports to have all the answers-usually in a
single book.
Jesus loves the little children, or is it his priests who do?
Let me ask you this, if you're in your heavenly paradise and you see some poor soul being dragged off to the eternal hellfire what are you going to do? Stand silently and watch?
Would you have the courage to speak out against such a barbaric act? Will this please you knowing countless numbers of loving hard working families will also suffer God's wrath. Christ's Hellfire makes Hitler's ovens look small indeed. If Christ was a living human on Earth today and began stuffing people into burning fires by the thousands don't you think there would be a moral outrage?! You mean to tell me that you would be standing behind this monster? Supporting mass killings, men, women and kids, but somehow in Heaven this behavior is OK?
Vanity is not an admirable trait among humans, even less so among gods.
You must understand that fearful threats of hell do not sway us as apparently they do you. For if, in fact, you are right and your god exists as you describe, then I DO reject it deliberately. To do otherwise would mean I would be a silent accomplice in crimes against humanity. I am NEVER going to be a part of a belief system that hurts people and no amount of scripture quoting by you is going to change that. The vast majority of people have done nothing that would even remotely justify torture for eternity, especially children. I myself am walking around freely in this society. Surely, if I was as vile as you describe, I should be imprisoned now. But, in fact, the crimes you claim I am to be punished for are not recognized as crimes in our own society. They are crimes only in the mind of your god. They are crimes so severe that it will torture us forever for them. In fact, Christians are fond of saying, "God cannot tolerate our sin in his presence". But your god, who presumably drowned all the world's children, is not held to the same standard. Instead you argue that when god murders children it is righteous judgment. Can you not understand why we would reject this?
More assertions that the Bible is true. I assert that I am a stud in the bedroom! Do you dare doubt it?
If I get "saved" will I be as evil and stupid as you?
Another Hitler who swapped his swastika in for a cross. Fire up the oven boys, got us some atheists to get rid of! Your world of Heaven is a world of HORROR. Christian love is not the love of his fellow man, no, they think that if they can justify murder and torture through their beliefs in their god that makes it all alright. After all if GOD KILLS someone ITS NOT MURDER! THATÆS how these sick people look at it! Christian Love is also shallow. While they may say how much they love someone one eye is always pointed skyward as if they want to make sure they're being paid attention to. If you want to go around and say how much you love someone it should be because you DO love them and not as an afterthought in an attempt to score brownie points with Mr. DELUXE in the sky.
If god loves the world so much why does he neglect it like a drunken parent?
Yes, Hell awaits me. And Santa Claus is coming to town. And the Easter bunny is going to leave me a basket. And if I toss a penny into the well, my wish will come true. And if I stick pins into a doll that has a lock of your hair sewn to it, you'll start to have blood in your urine. And if I start calling myself a priest with a hotline to some god and find enough knuckle heads to believe me, I will have founded the only true church. The church of truth and light. Yes , it will be beautiful. I'll spend the rest of my life collecting money from my knuckleheads, preaching to them and screwing their teenage daughters. I won't even bathe anymore! I'LL JUST HAVE THEM LICK ME CLEAN! GREAT GOD ALMIGHTY!
Like Hitler he wants to lead a master race of people that measure up to his standards of perfection. Like Stalin he strikes fear into the hearts of his followers instantly punishing anyone who gets out of line or who doesn't agree with him. His mercy and compassion only extends to those who will ultimately conform to his way of thinking and he has an indestructible army that will crush anyone who tries to get in his way. The most frightening aspect about this is his followers worship his every word and praise his every action even though that action may include the torturing and killing of their own friends and loved ones. What kind of individual would sacrifice their humanity and want to follow such an angry, jealous, sick and twisted egotistical leader as this? MAYBE YOU?
Christians preach of love and brotherhood, but most of them, such as yourself, don't practice it. You accuse atheists of rejecting and hating god -- but we don't believe in him (we 'can't' hate him). You think that salvation comes from clasping your hands and begging the roof for answers -- only man can save man. Starving children in third-world nations don't need prayer; they need money, shelter, and love from fellow human beings. The sick don't need a deity; they need medicine and competent medical care. Believe whatever you want; it is your right as a human being. But don't try to force those delusional practices on me or on anyone else!
Your way of believing, however, does not allow someone with a different belief to share your candy-land existence. You said it yourself, you hope that I see the light so I can be saved too. SAVED FROM WHO? SAVED FROM WHAT? "Too bad, you're not a Christian SO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES!"
I hope you do get "born again", born again back into reality.
Because, Jeff, you may be in the majority now, but you never know when the majority might change to something else. Remember, there was a time when Christians were fed to lions for entertainment.
If you don't even give a thought to the wackos on the streets that go around saying they are God, why on earth would you believe some guy who went around saying it two thousand years ago?
Religion would be crap even if god existed.
They all start to look the same after a while. Huffing and puffing their bible smoke like the wolf who blew down two of the three little pigs houses. When they come up to the house made of bricks of reason, they just can't seem to blow it down, so they run away screaming that bricks are evil and that anyone who lives in a brick house will burn in hell.
If you love Jesus so much, emulate him. I've got the nails.
Then there is the Big Bonk theory that explains the much maligned virgin birth.
Why Would a Martyr Die? To get to the other side.
The Jewish God certainly is interesting. He orders genocide after genocide, but he forbids cheeseburgers.
I'm surprised that more theists don't implode.
When a Christian says "God exists" he is declaring that your bathroom light switch is in a known state.
Given the 1500 year history of you christers persecuting everybody who is not like them, you might be able to understand why people hate you so much. Of course, in any community of thinking people, you morons are already a laughingstock. And when you become a laughingstock to the majority of people; well, that's sweeter revenge than any violence could ever accomplish.
What possible reason could an infinite being need the love and regard of some infinitesimal dust-motes on some only slightly-less infinitesimal dust-speck in an out-of-the-way galaxy in some distant corner of the universe? That's kind of like me wanting and needing the love of some bacteria living under the tundra in Siberia, only even more ludicrous.
Can they put signs over the urinals saying "Jesus is watching you"?
If every Xian who is less sexually "moral" than I am suddenly burst into flames, the amount of carbon released into the atmosphere would cause a global winter.
There is either God or there is not God. If there is no God then you don't have a problem. If there is God, God is either just or not just. If God is just, then God will judge you fairly. If God is not just, then you probably wouldn't want to spend eternity with God anyhow. Fear of a petty and vengeful god is a terrible thing to base your life on. Such a god ought to be defied, denied or ignored. If you can't believe in a just and loving God, then it is better not to believe at all.
Textbook atheist?.... That's a meaningless statement. Try herding cats sometime.
Can Christians be held liable if they pray for a miracle to occur to heal a terminally ill patient, and the patient dies as expected? Isn't that a form of "religious malpractice?"
The bible asks 'What would it profiteth a man to gain the whole world if he lose his own soul?' Well the fact is that (I honestly hope) most any atheist would sacrifice themselves to save 6 billion people. And your god won't even raise a damn finger.
And for me to look into the depths of the night sky is to behold something far greater than your religion could ever allow for.
You mean you LIKE the thought that you've been created especially to worship your creator, and after you die you'll honor it throughout eternity? That's your purpose in existence--to be a cosmic cheering squad for a deity so vain and insecure that it needs constant reassurance that it's supreme? No thank you!
The only problem with Baptists is they don't hold them under water long enough.
God inspires men to preach what sounds like bullshit. Men who preach the bullshit admit it sounds like bullshit. God punishes those who hear the bullshit and characterize it as bullshit. If God has a problem with that, it's His own damn fault.
There's something to be said about realizing that you're not part of a celestial ant-farm created for the pleasure of a supreme being who's testing to see if you're worthy to become part of his cosmic cheerleading squad for eternity.
Now you still have to deal with the issue at hand- god's immorality. If you find it immoral that us puny humans, who probably could never realistically rid the world of abortions, do not attempt to rid the world of abortion, then you should find it infinitely more immoral that an omnipotent god, who could stop abortion with a snap of his omnipotent fingers, does nothing.
Islam: If @#%$ happens it is the will of Allah.
(In response to: "He lost his physical life. Are you saying that's not a sacrifice?") Mr. Boatwright, that is precisely what everyone arrayed against you is saying. You claim an immortal being slipped into a physical body for 33 years, suffered a short period of humiliation, lost that body for 40 hours, regained it, then shed it entirely to return to its immortal state. When my cat voids himself he has lost something of more intrinsic value to himself than that body was of value to your demiurge. There is nothing noble is this story, nothing that uplifts the spirit. The moral is to cover your mistakes by throwing someone else to the wolves; the point is that guilt is what should guide your life, not compassion.
Someone needs to come up with the deity equivalent of a nicotine patch
It's no sacrifice to give up one of what you have an infinite number. An omnipotent God giving up a single life is the equivelent of you donating a penny you happened to find in your couch to charity and expecting everybody to praise you.
And remember, the ten commandments only apply to people named 'Thou'! (No doubt, most of them Vietnamese, eh?)
(In response to: "The final word is this WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM, [...] That's exactly the way God wants it, because he doesn't want the faithless and unbelieving in His Kingdom anyway." Sounds like a four-year-old. "Wahh! Those atheists don't wanna believe in me! I'll show 'em! Smite! Smite! Smite!"
'That's right, your Honor - the bitch was begging for it.' The Bible says that Mary was engaged to Joseph at the time. That "affair" between Mary and God sounds like adultery or fornication to me, and according to the Deuteronomic laws, apparently both Mary and God are supposed to be stoned to death. "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you." (Deuteronomy 22:23-24) Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can be stoned to death by it?
(In response to: "To help Atheist's realize that they cram their beliefs just like Theist's do.") Yeah, we try so hard that football players shout "Thank Darwin!" when they win. Atheists sit in the stands at games with cards that read "Confucius 7:20" and "Manchus 4:12." Our coinage says 'In God we Do Not Trust.' To whom are we cramming our beliefs? And how?"
Modern Christian belief is a bit like the Cheshire cat's smile; it floats around long after having lost its substance.
Just so. The next time someone tells me that Jesus died for my sins, I'm tempted to reply, "Oh yeah? Well, Prometheus spent several thousand years getting his liver ripped out by a vulture just so you could cook your food -- and HE doesn't threaten to punish you if you don't worship him!"
The traditions of men have given us space travel and the eradication of smallpox; the word of god" gives us talking mules and says if you show spotted sticks to pregnant sheep, their lambs will have spots.
So, okay, let's assume you are right. This country does perform abortions like there ain't no tomorrow. Do you mean to say that god's great SOLUTION to that problem is to kill off everybody, INCLUDING the children (and unborn) that he is so concerned about? Come on, now, that makes no sense.
(In response to: "Have you seen the wind?") Yes. Check out some wind tunnel photographs. Moreover, I can detect what the wind does to other things. (Like trees and windmills.) The day I can harness God for electrical power, I'll have a use for him, too.
Worshiping a god out of fear is the same as a slave placating his master by being submissive.
Last night I had a dream which I believe illustrates this point beautifully - I left my grandmother's home after a long talk, and a dog attacked me. I asked the dog what he was doing and he replied, "Sending you to hell." And I said, "Why?" And he said, "because you denied ME." And I, laughing at his silliness, "There is no such place as hell." And the dog said, "Yes there is." And I said, "Where is it then?" And the dog said, "It's In YOUR MIND." Suddenly I found myself alone in an almost completely dark hallway. I was running down this dark hallway and was very afraid. I calmed myself by saying it was only a dream, and this was not hell, but rather some part of myself I had yet to face. After I said these words I woke up. I ran into the darkness and faced it. There is no god. Hell is only in your mind. There is nothing to fear.
Eat a big plate of jambalaya, head off to the can, and meditate on this, "defecating is more productive than praying."
Let go of your genatalia and grab a dictionary.
You can go off and delude yourself all you want, but when you start threatening nonbelievers, when you start damaging the education systems, when you start considering the evil and horror bestowed upon humankind by your religious beliefs in the past and you refuse to accept any responsibility for them, that's when things get a bit scary in the real world of which you and I are a part.
This is not a sport. This is not a game. This is not some airy-fairy disagreement about whose legend is more popular. This is not a fantasy debate with fantasy rules about whose unproven afterlife has a less tenuous grip on our consciousness. You are in the real world now, and in the real world people are burning young children to death in the name of their religion. That's we here call madness and tragedy.
If they can justify the murder of tens of thousand of North and South American Indians to perpetuate the belief in their mythical triplets, I don't think the destruction of a bumper sticker will be a problem for them.
Why not masturbate instead of praying? It's basically the same as praying. It makes you feel good, it doesn't do any harm, it doesn't do any good, you can do it alone, or you can do it in groups!
God, strangely enough for being perfect himself, seems to be extremely jealous of any human that is perfect. First, he set Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden with a special fruit tree and specific instructions NOT to eat from it. He also left them with a deceptive talking snake and the inability to tell right from wrong. Clear set up for easy punishment - like setting a pail of boiling water in an infants playpen. Then came Job, the next perfect human. So god decided to kill his family, and inflict him with a nasty illness. Third, his own son was so perfect that God demanded that he *die* "to give salvation to mankind." Salvation from something he was responsible for from day 6.
There is a 12 billion year gap between the big bang and the bible and I see no connection whatsoever between the two.
Satanists try to sell their souls to the devil every day: 'Gimme what I want, Satan, and I'll worship you forever and you can have my soul.' Xians try to sell their souls to the devil every day: 'Gimme what I want, God, and I'll worship you forever and you can have my soul.' Just what the @#%$ is the difference?
Were I to be of the opinion that there was a God, and that God was of the Christian ilk, it would be morally impossible to choose to be with a God who imposes unending torment on some people. To do so is to be complicit in their torture and as responsible for it as the one who imposes it. It'd be like knowing about Auschwitz yet continuing to support Hitler. If there is a Heaven, it's for those that can stomach it.
Christianity still practices virtual cannibalism by eating their God««'s body and drinking his blood during their rituals. They also venerate his execution by placing its depiction in a prominent position in their sanctuaries. Worshipers even go so far as to wear a miniature of the murder weapon as a necklace. Then, they have the temerity to complain about the violence depicted on television.
Atrocious grammar. You'd think someone connected to the inner workings of Good and Evil could at least learn to punctuate. Perhaps if people understood grammar better they would not believe in God.
Jesus' last words: "Oh, @#%$, that fu'ckin' HURTS!"
One commonly used comparison is with Christian mythology, in which I would be some kind of beloved pet animal being put through an electrified maze looking for an infinitely large lump of invisible cheese. This does not strike me as significantly more meaningful than what I see.
Fundies seem to think that the only way of knowing something is to experience it firsthand; a strange contradiction since they've only met their god in a book...
This attitude is what is so repugnant to us, the sheepish acceptance of an unknowable universe, a place where nothing can be controlled or analyzed. Anything can happen if GAWD! so wants. Apples can fall up from the ground. A handful of glass pieces can build a perfect Bohemian vase when you smash them against the wall. In such a universe, you can explain nothing, because everything is subject to the will of a whimsical being. In your world, research and science are futile, because all can be subverted in a second if your god so decides. It's Brze's "death of the mind", intellectual passiveness, the end of curiosity, the end of the human aim to have a better life, to improve ourselves.
Although, honestly now, how can you look at the sprawling grandness of the cosmos and think that it was made for *you*. That's the height of arrogance.
You don't understand, Joe. To a fundy like Spammy, not being allowed to force his religion on everyone else IS stepping on his 'rights'.
If I grant my son the freedom to choose any choice of ice creme flavor he wants, it would be damn sick of me to torture him with a blowtorch for choosing anything but strawberry. It would be even more sick of me to never show my face to my son, but to leave hundreds of contradictory messages lying around - in the form of old musty books. Some books claimed that he would be thrown into a furnace for choosing chocolate. Some claimed that he would crushed in a vice for choosing vanilla. Still others claimed that he would be mangled for choosing a flavor with nuts. Then, years later, after he had made up his mind, I suddenly burst into existence in front of him and say "AHA! You didn't choose strawberry! See, right here, in my REAL instruction book I said "blowtorch for non-strawberry!!!" and I whip out the torch....
To really annoy a Fundie, INSIST on the truth!
I have never met an Atheist . . . who argues that a human fetus is not a human fetus, but I have met some Christians who claim that a bit of cracker is human flesh.
And you would expect us to believe this myth as fact? So what evil did the trees do? What evil did the animals do? What evil did the rocks do? The only evil I see in the whole myth of Noah is the evil that god did, destroying the whole world, just because it did not get it's way. Because it wanted a more imbecilic race to worship it, so forced inbreeding was the solution. And from the sound of most religions and religious people today, the idiot god has finally gotten its way.
(In response to: "May God open the hearts of men that they may behold His truth.") It will probably be in the traditional biblical way if he does; With a sword.
@#%$, if I haven't broken all ten commandments by noon I consider it a wasted day.
People learning to wash their hands before helping in a delivery has saved more lives than all prayer through all time.
THIMK stands for: Theists Hope Ignorance Means Knowledge
"...too stupid even for a creationist!???, You're new here aren't you?
The biggest difference between the church and the local mall is that when you give money to the mall, you generally get something useful in return.
It's OK to do wrong as long as you know that it's bad and that there are consequences to YOU (i.e. you're going to hell). Then you can go pray and tell god you're so very sorry, and it's a done deal. You go to heaven. Funny how the victim never figures into this picture!
Jesus must be in jail; that's where everyone seems to find him.
Odin and Thor stopped by, they can't resist my apple mead, and explained a great deal. Sooner or later more than 20,000 gods and goddesses are going to get fed up with God claiming to be the top dog and duke it out with the souls of their followers to settle the matter. Yahweh has plenty of cannon fodder, but Odin is confident that the berserkers will make short work of them. Thor, well into his cups, commented that you can't turn the other cheek after your head is lopped off.
In the event of the Rapture, expect idiocy to drop 100%.
The reason [for the world wide flood] I've always perceived was that humanity had become really, really mean and nasty and sinful and that there was only one righteous person left, so God said I'll put the good guy on a boat and to hell with everybody else I'll drown them for their wickedness. If that doesn't make sense to you then maybe you're not mentally ill.
Gods feed on faith, a waste product given off by human ignorance.
"...and so the world ended on Sep 23, 1998 as every irony meter on the planet earth mysteriously exploded at the exact same time."
You'd like to think I'm all for rounding you up and having you shot, but that would take all the fun out of it. No, far more effective and entertaining is to create no martyrs and inflame no causes, but to slowly, effectively, teach your children to think for themselves, to expose them over and over to the duplicity of beliefs and make them realize that you, and the Moslem, and every other belief system, can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.
JESUS SAVES.........by cliping coupons.
BTW, doesn't it seem odd that the "evidence for the existence of god" is completely hidden from the greatest human minds who spend their professional lives exploring how the universe functions, yet it is perfectly clear to uneducated simpletons who have access to internet-linked terminals?
Your God must be an idiot. Either that, or he's constrained by forces more powerful than himself - in which case, screw Him, I'm going to pray to *those*.
Just try to imagine what a standard of absolute gloopiness means. However gloopy you may think you are, that is nothing compared to absolute gloopiness. The Gloopy Ghost is the gloopiest of gloopies, the very standard of gloopiness against which we are all miserably ungloopy by comparison. Ponder your wretched ungloopiness. Wallow in the stink of it, you worthless bug. It's all your fault and you completely deserve every bad thing that could ever possibly happen to you. Wail, tear your clothes, and cover your face in dung until you are filled with loathing and contempt for yourself. And if you do that enough to amuse the Gloopy Ghost, it may flick you a speck of gloopiness, because it has an irrational love for that which is utterly vile and detestable. And you can take your speck of gloopiness and prance and parade it around, and show all the other wretches how favored you are. And the ungloopy will cheer and adore you from their pits of filth, and your very name will be as a blessing of gloopiness amongst them. Amongst all, that is, except for that especially vile bastard who so stinks of ungloopiness that he doesn't even know what gloopiness is.
If I'm writing a book on one of the sciences, other scientists can verify for themselves what is in the book. Either through numerous other sources, or by observing and doing the experiments themselves. Nothing in the bible can be recreated, verified, corroborated, validated, repeated, and from that, I conclude: believed.
Why would God require that I not think in order to be "saved?
(In response to: "I think you should all keep it in the closet. Hetero & homo alike.") Then DON'T wear a wedding ring. NEVER hold hands with your loved one in public. Certainly don't kiss your lover where someone else can see you. And above all else, keep those foul products of undeniable heterosexual coupling, children, in the cellar until they're old enough for you to deny you ever knew about them. If that's not a tenable position for you, stop asking other people to do it for you.
You do not need the bible to justify love, but no better tool has ever been invented to justify hate.
But bob, the problem with fundies is that they are infinitely capable of absorbing abuse. It is proportional to their ability to spew bullshit.
Read between the lines motherfu*cker, shape-up or Jesus will kill you and eat your babies!
HUMILITY = BELIEVING THAT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED WITH YOU IN MIND
Don't try to figure out the Gordian knot of Christian logic there's no rhyme nor reason and trying to resolve such will just lead you to a nice padded room and a jacket with straps and buckles.
Observe "nature". "God" is pathetic in comparison.
We're not here to discuss religion, we're here to be disgusted by it.
"God is a child who made the Earth as a plaything, and has no more love or respect for it than a child does with his toy soldiers out in the yard." Hit the Xians with that argument and see if they can overcome it. Doubtlessly they will shy away with some vague comment about god's mysterious ways....
This ultimately comes down to the insanely supreme arrogance of religious thinking: that a carbon-based bag of mostly water on a speck of iron-silicate dust around a boring dwarf star in a minor galaxy in an underpopulated local group of galaxies in an unfashionable suburb of a supercluster would look up at the sky and declare 'It was all made so that I could exist!'
If all the creationists in the world got laid end to end they would probably not think sex such a bad thing after all.
He loves us. He wants us to believe. He will torture us for all time if we do not believe. But he refuses to give any proof that is distinguishable from mythology. Those Pharisees are screaming in eternal agony *right* *now* because Jesus refused to give any evidence more compelling than that offered by the priests of Zeus. This from a 'god' who was at one time perfectly willing to turn a rod into a snake to impress Pharaoh. This from Jesus, who walked on water. Why are we (and the Pharisees) so unworthy that we are not worth the irrefutable proof offered to Galilean peasants? Perhaps this story, like so many others almost exactly like it, is just not true.
I for one wish the rapture were true, so Jeezus can take his zealots away from earth and make it a better place.
(In response to: "This is a dangerous message. You're basically basing this on "Star-Wars"! You can't make yourself better. only God can do it.") News. Your own superstition is no better than George Lucas' highly entertaining science fiction trilogy. And to Lucas' favor, at least the sequel will be returning soon.
This is typical of the way creationists think. They can't handle large, complicated issues, so they try and fit them into small boxes. When science fails to fit into a small box, they crank the handle and out pops God to console them.
(In response to: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely, applies to fallen human nature, not to our Creator.") Sorry, but corruption appears to be the perfect word to describe the Christian bible god - a being who is so omni-conceited, immoral and depraved that he actually enjoys the smell of burning flesh, delights in blood sacrifice, has his own son tortured to death needlessly, and casts the vast majority of humanity in external torment. Next to the Christian bible god, Caligula looks like an Eagle scout.
If you're going to insist on groveling to a comic book character you might as well upgrade to one that has integrity, and leads by example.
What? Again? How many attempts does this fu*ckwit god of yours need to get things right? He created Adam & Eve, but that experiment went wrong when they dared seek knowledge. He flooded the Earth leaving all but Noah & co to rebuild everything. He sent down his son to clear things up... only his message was so screwed up that it has to be deciphered by theologians... most of whom can't agree with each other about the basics. And now you reckon he's going to send his half-wit son back to Earth before wiping the slate clean to try again? Jesus! I hope Universe v2.0 has an undo feature. Sure save a lot of hassle.
Using the bible as a moral guide is like tearing up a map into 1000 pieces and using it to navigate.
For the uninformed, an improbable is the standard unit of improbability which is equal to the improbability of the bible being true. Given the huge scale of this unit, most improbabilities are expressed as nano-improbabibles. For example, the improbability that monkeys will fly out my ass as of right now today is about 100 nano-improbabibles. For those who prefer English units, that would be about 373 notfuckinglikelys.
Perhaps Christians are enslaved by sin, but the rest of us tend to get enslaved by Christians.
Answer Just one question for me. Assume I am the leader on a country. I invade a neighboring country and conquer it. I order all the men killed. I order all the boys killed. I have all the women checked for virginity, those that aren't I have killed. The remaining virgin girl children I split up and let my soldiers do to them what they will, keeping a good portion of the best looking ones for my own use." The question is: Under what circumstances would it be good and moral to do the above? And the answer is: Because God commanded it. I'm sure you are hoping for another holy war, so you can finally get laid.
The pride you have in your god is not much different from a parent's pride in their three year-old child's ability to make a poop. Damn near anything will impress you.
(In response to: "The moral of the story: It is no good just asking God something, you must be ready to accept the answer. Are you?" No the first moral is that stories like this will impress only simpletons. The second moral is that if a Xian is feeling horny, prays for some love action and encounters a pig then he just has to take it because he has to assume that anything could be god's answer including the aforementioned swine.
HIV is a virus; Pat Robertson is a curse from God.
Theists, particularly the Christian variety, have given up their human citizenship and migrated to an absolute, if imaginary monarchy. Democracy is a foreign notion to such institutions, and they should be reminded of this. Personally, I think the big problem with Hell is not so much the reality, or no, of the place, or the idea that God willfully imposes unending suffering on some people, but that many Christians are perfectly happy with the idea . . . Of course, should one take that to its conclusion, one might go on to argue that ...[snip]... being complicit with the idea, that the infinite torture of some people is just fine, Christians resign their humanity and have chosen to become something quite different. Really, I suppose, it comes down to a question of loyalty. Christians are traitors to humanity (and would probably, in a sense, take pride in the title). Taking that to its logical conclusion, one might observe that one does not argue motives or politics with traitors, one executes them.
God: colourless, odorless invention, given enough time, kills people
Take a piece of crap - wrap it in gold foil - call it the most valuable thing in existence - install it in a beautiful building crafted by the most talented artisans in the world - make it so beautiful it makes men weep for joy upon seeing it - and these atheists still say "something smells bad!" - they have no respect for even the most venerated of turds.
(In response to: "I don't judge myself to be nice, I let Jesus who lives in my heart do the judging.") Is Jesus a heartworm then, or some kind of bacteria or virus?
Even Santa doesnÆt threaten kids with torture, he just bypasses their houses or gives them lumps of coal in their stockings. Your god could do the same thing, and just make people vanish away if they disobey him or don't believe in him. Your god is nothing more than a sadistic Santa Claus.
Those who follow like sheep will be fleeced.
That's a very big "if," but if the evidence for xianity being literally true was undeniable, I'd have no choice but to join. However, the likelihood of that happening is about as high as the possibility of winged monkeys suddenly flying out of my ass and taking over the world with the help of robots with death ray eyes.
IF God doesn't like how I live, let Him tell me, not YOU!
(In response to a statement to the effect that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with God):Oh, and if xianity isn't a religion, then you wouldn't mind having it pay taxes, now would you? If one of the core factors in Christianity is to forgive your enemies (no matter what wrong-doings they may have committed against you), doesn't it seem rather insane for this same religion to preach that you could suffer unimaginable torture for *eternity* for something(s) you may have committed during your life-time on earth?
Sand is to an Ostrich what the bible is to Christians.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...I have more freedom than you ever will simply because I dare to question all that is put to me. If you had half the balls I do (and I ain't even a man), you might understand what I'm talking about. Instead, you sit in your little corner of life, licked the imaginary boots of your imaginary deity, hoping it will get you a ticket to the afterlife. Very sad.
(In response to: "God gave the Israelite certain cleanliness laws to keep them from disease that were far advanced of their time.") Yet God, in His infinite wisdom, failed to give a single, simple cleanliness law that would have spared hundreds of thousands of deaths from the Black Plague alone: the commandment 'Thou Shalt Boil Thy Water.'
So, the Xian fundies want to slap the 10 commandments on the wall. I guess our school kids have a real problem with
committing adultery and carving idols during school hours.
(In response to: "God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom! (I rest my case)") That's quite a lot of foolishness that you are ascribing to your God there. He's got more foolishness than man has wisdom? Poor sod ...
Jesus is a long-rotted carcass. Sh'it, even JC realized there is no 'God' while he was pinned to a stick -- that's why he whined about being forsaken. Prior to a fat NOTHING happening to save him, he was convinced that a magic space pixie would rescue him from his plight; but after playing "nail my wrists and call me INRI" for nine hours he was struck with the distinct impression that there wasn't anyone there to help his hallucinating shyster ass.
(a) I do not attend church regularly because (b) I already found "God." But "God" isn't what you think it is. "God" is a screaming child in Ethiopia whose kidneys have shut down and is about to die from starvation. "God" is a dumpster in Vatican City where urchins (just as in every city in the world) feed on refuse, while the wealthiest and most powerful social organization in the world decadently spends its money just a few blocks away on big hats, gold crosses and silver chalices and continuing to exploit the poorest people in the world in "God's" name. "God" is hate, "God" is stupidity, "God" is the scum on the bottom of your shoe. "God" is not pretty and "God" does not care. I found my "God," then I killed it. I, an atheist, know more about "God" than any Christian will ever know.
Christianity has kept alive a perverse version of the Old Jewish War God, but put a hideous yellow smiley face upon his Ugly Mug.
As the status quo for the vast majority of two millennia in the Western World, Christianity has enjoyed unquestionable preeminence, cultural universality, and at times even the merciless state-enforced oppression of dissenters. Christians have become so used to a climate of social dominance and impunity many of them seem to think their civil liberties are being violated when they are encouraged to stop infringing upon the civil liberties of others. Just like a bully who's outraged because the position of someone else's nose has become a messy *imposition* upon his right to freely swing his fist.
The only useful thing I ever got out of religion was the Missionary Position.
You can say whatever the hell you want about evidence, arguments, and whatever the hell lengths you will go to prove the existence of one God or another. But until the very day I see your God or any other get up off his ass and do something, ANYTHING, for this gigantic blue-and-green rock without the help of man-made technology or natural phenomena, when I see him give two pieces of monkey crap about his believers, when I see him face to face, then I will believe he exists.
You don't have a messiah. You have a dead god on a stick.
That I am looking for here is motive, not argument. I want to know why you bother, not why I'm going to hell. I've heard it all, and guess what! I DON'T want your god; I DON'T want your faith; I DON'T want your pity; and I DON'T WANT YOUR fu'cking SALVATION!!!
SH*T! That's so funny, I damn near saw god.
Christians are unable to question the Bible. They are constrained by the notion of hell. They are constrained by the notion of excommunication. They cannot question the bible because that is NOT faithful, and therefore they will go to hell if they question it, per the book itself. I want people to be free, not slaves, and so I want you to engage your power of critical thought, and trust to your reason. And if GOD really does exists, and he is everything you hoped he would be, he will bloody well forgive you - and he might even give you a bar of chocolate and a trifle for trying to understand things a bit better.
I'm flattered you liked my book so much. Now why don't you read something new?-God. I've always hated those "talk talk talk -God" signs. My theory is that if God were trying to be funny or cute, he would be infinitely so. It would be so funny your brain would melt just from reading it.
So you are welcome to the fu'cking prick. Especially since you don't really know whether he exists or not - bit of a silly thing really, to run large amounts of your life based on something with no @#%$ evidence! Anyway, if God exists, here is an experiment. In the bible, we are told that God will strike us down for opposing his word. Therefore he is gonna kill me right now - COME ON INTO THE FUC'KING RING @#%$. Your fu'cking Son JESUS was a slaver, a misogynist like his dad, and a piece of sh'it - so I'll take you BOTH on at once. In fact bring the fu'cking Trinity down on me the Dad, the fu'cking sprog, and the Holy fu'cking Phantom! And throw that fu'cking @#%$ of a Pope in for a beating too, for fu'cking people's lives up good and proper. I am still here. Seems God is either intimidated by me, or he isn't there.
The MEEK will inherit the earth? What the @#%$ - sounds to me like Jesus is saying 'shut up. Put up with it. You'll get your reward when you die so long as you shut the @#%$ up, lie down like the pissant you are, and take this shafting right up your arse.
If you REALLY want to see schizophrenia in action, read the book of Revelation! That is a magnificent study of psychosis, whoever wrote that was seriously psychotic! What? The whore of Babylon will arrive on a seven headed beast? Bringing Pestilence and many bladed swords and stuff? Then an angel tells all the chickens in heaven to come round to gods place for dinner. Where the @#%$ is THIS @#%$ happening? Not in my local bar that's for sure.
Ask yourself if you agree with the book of Timothy which says a woman must be completely subservient to her husband, and must not disagree with a man? Do you agree with that? Obviously not because I am a man, and you disagreed with my thoughts. You are not allowed to disagree with Lloyd for calling you an egg per the Bible, since Lloyd is a bloke. But you DID disagree with him, therefore your actions contradicted the word of GOD which means you are going to hell anyway, per the bible. But Christians; I bet you wouldn't DARE say you disagree because you are scared of going to hell. Do you think homosexuals should be executed for the 'crime' of enjoying their sexuality? God does. Do you agree? Be careful, because according to scripture, if you disagree you're going to hell...And why is it an 'abomination' to eat a weasel?
Read Suetonius- Caligula was a monster, Vespasian was a pragmatic politician. Both had absolute power. The Roman people had much to thank Vespasian for- he balanced the budget, brought peace and even still had a self- deprecating streak of humor on his death bed. Vespasian worked himself up through the ranks. He earned his power- and that is the difference between him and Caligula. Caligula had power handed to him at a young age. This is a pattern that we see again and again. The pragmatic, self- made man steps in and ends the chaos. Then his spoiled son takes over and becomes utterly corrupt. So where does god fit into this idea? He is spoiled, petulant, cruel. He wipes out whole cities and punishes the children for the sins of the fathers. And with Jesus it's all me, me, me. Follow me. Only through me. Leave your wife and children and come with me. Not only am i right, but everybody else is wrong. My new covenant cancels the old. It's the same old selfish god. Love each other, yes, but love me first- that's the order he put his two commandments in.
Genesis 30:39 As I understand the story, the owner of the goats promises that Jacob can 'have' the striped goats of his flock. Jacob puts the striped rods where the strong goats will see them while copulating, so that their offspring will bear the characteristics, transmitted thru eyeballs, nerve system, reproductive organs. Genetics don't work that way, so either the rod striper is casting a magical spell, or invoking God's might to alter reality. Neither one is particularly scientific. Still, the shallow examination of the event makes one wonder, if God wants the goats to be striped, and God wills the goats to be striped, why does there need to be a rod involved? Actually, since all the effort listed in the verses seems to be Jacob's, who also mentions using a divining cup, I'd probably call it a magic spell. Purpose of the straked, striped, ring-speckled goat kidding aside, it's not scientifically correct. God's motives in doing it or allowing it are not part of the question. This leads quickly to the 'God works in mysterious ways' defense. Well, so did my Aunt Tilly, but even she couldn't break physical laws.
I even told myself...if Jehovah is real, then Satan still comes off as the more worthy, more powerful, and more admirable God. I would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven, yuk yuk. Getting punished forever with Satan will be more noble and more life-affirming than being a cog in an eternal-worship-service-of-a-jukebox-for-the-Almighty, eh? Jehovah has bad taste to the Max. After 54 eons of being mechanically worshiped and praised by a sea of predetermined, blood-bought-worship-serfs, I imagine by that time, Jehovah will be prancing around the throne naked, running out of new angles and new themes for being worshiped, and I can imagine him resorting to flashing his bunghole to the cherubs and to the redeemed, asking that his bung be worshiped by everyone in attendance.
As Jeremiah says, the potter has the right to make one clay pot beautiful and to destroy another (Jeremiah 18:1-10). God, the author and sustainer of life and the source of morality and justice, as a being categorically different than we are, has rights we do not have. So god allegedly dying on a cross to save meaningless pottery was an exercise of insanity. Unless he forgot that he had the power to choose who he would keep and destroy who he would, the cross was not needed. Think about the nature of it all. God hands down a moral code that he disregards. An intricate web of law is created that cannot be kept to the letter. God kills himself on the cross to give everyone a chance. But, ultimately, god chooses who he will because he is the potter of all life. Why not just say that in the first place? Why not tell humanity that regardless of how good or bad you are, I'm going to decide your fate in the end? Why would god care if we destroyed one another unless he wanted to keep that sadistic pleasure all to himself?
Exodus 30:11-16 If god were so dependent upon this tent being erected, etc., and he was willing to resort to killing so many men to insure his success (miracles of violence), why wouldnÆt he just give Moses the silver and wealth to begin with, (a miracle of selfish benevolence). Or he couldÆve shown Moses where he could mine it from the earth without shedding blood. Or god couldÆve just constructed the tent himself, and no money would have had to exchange hands in the first place. If he could send manna from the sky, why not silver to build a tent? Maybe he just got his kicks from talking tough. And since god had created every bit of silver in the universe, and knew where they all were and had control of every ounce anyway, what value would they be to him? And what does he need a tent for, when he has the entire universe to reside in? And why would he waste a second of his time, talking to an idiotic, conniving, slave-making, raping, mass-murderer like Moses, anyway? WasnÆt there a decent person back then to convey his thoughts and wishes to, without consorting with criminals?
Thinks he's so special because he thought up 'Let there be light'. Sh*t. First day he barely had the thing running. By that time I already had women with three tits having sex with each other just for my amusement.
Revelation is another shining example of mental masturbation, whoever put it in the book was a sadist. It just barely made it into the canonical bible. Apparently the writing actually pre-existed Jesus and the references to Christ were superimposed at a later date. It seems that the early church fathers knew of this and held the work in contempt. Even Calvin refused to acknowledge the letter and admonished his followers not to read it or to teach from it. But personally, I've always enjoyed the book of Revelation. It's a lot more imaginatively wacky than the rest of the Bible, except maybe Daniel. A 1st-century Lewis Carrol might have written it after finding some wild mushrooms. But that doesn't have anything to do with the author's original intent. John was a little off his rocker over this Jesus hysteria, had an elaborate dream, and wrote it down. Thought it was something profound and that the events would happen in his lifetime. That's no reason to take it seriously as actual prophecy. I interpreted the book once in a seemingly coherent fashion, but I was on peyote at the time.
God is funny. He appears to be schizophrenic throughout the old testament. I mean, if God already comes across as some kind of a schizoid, freaky, good-parent/bad-parent, then what prevents him from changing his mind on any point or rule in the old testament. The God of the old testament is the perfect example of a manipulative parenting style known as chaotic-parenting. God keeps control through fear. But, not any ordinary fear, such as, fear of death, loss, darkness, etc. No. God controlled through the fear of the unknown (or, the fear that what you do know will change). God appears to change his mind so often that you can't "figure him out". Also, there is no asking any questions. And if there is questioning, there is no real straight answers. God wishes to be an enigma. Albeit, a frightening, terrible, omnipotent one. Job was rebuked for trying to get answers about his undeserved suffering. God is good at leaving you "in the dark". If we really wanted to examine a screwy subject, we should examine the mystery of God's will. Same problem though, it changes. And when it does, it does it quick, fast, and in a hurry, and you're punished for not seeing it coming. Last tidbit before I retire. Paul, in the new testament, speaking of God's will, says that whoever God wills, he hardens, and whoever God wills, he softens. He made some for honor (to reward, or show his goodness towards), and some for dishonor (to punish, or show his wrath upon). Another point is made that nothing escapes God's will. You will be what you were made to be, according to his design and purpose. You cannot avoid it. So, people questioned, how can God punish us for doing what he made us for? Paul responds by rebuking them for the thought of questioning God about their design. "The potter has the right to make some vessels for honor and some for dishonor. Shall the clay say to the one who formed it, "why did you make me like this?" Who are you, oh man, to reply against God, saying, why did you make me like this?" The answer? Obviously, they are the ones God must have made to question him. For, what else can they do but fulfill their design?
ôThou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.ö Does this work in reverse? Such asààGod shalt love all his people with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his strength, and with all his mind; and love them as himself. And do unto his creation as he would have done unto himself? I think not. For he would have to be willing for a few thousand years anyway to get circumcised and do blood sacrifice rituals, kill and kill some more then be willing to glorify himself for all eternity and at the same time burn in agony and torment for all eternity. Oh yeah and he would have to believe in himself by faith. Or doee he just makes the rules, not follow em.
There are numerous references to various body parts of the deity in the OT, from when the more anthropomorphic, barbaric conception was in fashion. A brief sampling of passages that make references to the deity's physical body: Ezekiel 8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the color of amber. Ezekiel 1:27 And I saw as the color of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. Exodus 33:22 And I will take away mine hands and thou shalt see my back parts but my face shall not be seen. According to Habbakkuk 3:4, Habbakkuk saw the deity and he had "horns coming out of his hand". Judges 9:13 reveals that Yahweh likes to drink wine. Deuteronomy 23:12-14 has Yahweh giving instructions for defecating. He says to carefully cover up all feces "for the Lord walketh in the midst of thy camp." (You wouldn't want the divine foot to step in your poo, would you?) In Genesis 32:24-30, Jacob wrestles with god and wins. God changes Jacob's name to Israel to signify that he wrestled with God and "prevailed", which is an event indeed deserving of commemoration. And of course, Genesis 11:4 has Yahweh worrying that people could build a tower tall enough to reach him in heaven. Amazing how many times the Bible's writer chose to use "metaphors" which involved physical attributes for an ethereal deity!.
(In response to recent survey results that indicate people not associated with the Christian faith rate fundamentalist Christians lower than almost any other group, excepting prostitutes) My question is... who the HELL rated prostitutes as worse than fundies? I mean, they're honest about what they do, they provide the service promised, they've got better 'people' skills... The best that can be said for fundies is as least they want to spare the rest of us their company... even if they look at it as the other way around.
Why would he EVER choose to come back looking like his own corpse? ShouldnÆt he have returned as a talking camel, or maybe a plant, or better yet, just a pulsating glowing orb of floating light. Maybe he would have been better believed and respected coming back as something fearful like a 30 foot Big Foot creature. But, as it stands, he screwed up and gave us something RECOGNIZABLE instead. How lame. Or maybe he knew that image would occupy internet message boards and was going for the controversy.
(In response to: ôYou can not understand the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit and God the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.ö) When a member of the cult of Jesus tries to rationalize the Bible by using empty rhetoric, they lack credibility. But, I don't doubt that you're filled with something.
What is up with all these goddamned Christards talking about Hitler burning in Hell? What did Hitler do that was so fu'cking bad? He only killed a measly few million Jews. Now JESUS, on the other hand, sends ALL JEWS to eternal torment in the fiery pits of Hell. Jesus, who was supposedly such an endlessly loving soul, was the one that came up with this "Hell" whoozit. Hitler is a Saint when compared to Jesus' sick ass. The bible is real clear on that much. The only way into redemption, salvation, and Heaven is through Jesus H. FUC'KING Christ. So while Hitler killed a Jew or two, there is, according to Christian faith in the One True Loving God, not one single Jew ever born since Jesus' time that will not spend EfuckingTERNITY in pain, and torment. When a Christian talks about Hitler being evil, and then bends his knee to Jesus, he stretches the known boundaries of hypocrisy. Try to picture them. Yellow Star of David on their chests. Young, old, strong, weak, men, women, children, and infants wasting away under inhuman torture at the hands of the Nazis. After the pain and suffering, the abuse, the rapes, the starvation and eventually their executions, Jesus rewarded them how? By sending every one of them to an eternal suffering that makes Hitler's tortures seem minuscule. Anne Frank? Yeah, that Jew whore is in Hell where Jesus says her sorry ass belongs. Worship that? You can go fu'ck yourself. I'd rather burn in Hell than spend eternity kissing the ass of a god as fu'cked up as this Jesus fucknut. I'd sooner worship CharliefuckingManson. At least Charlie ain't near as hatefilled and loony as this Jesus shitstain obviously is. Hitler was an exceptional Christian. He was more like Christ than any other Christian I've ever heard of. But then what would you expect from someone who didn't drink, cuss, or smoke? Well just like Jesus, Hitler was a genocidal vial of bile. I will NEVER be a good Christian. I am way too good a person to defile myself like that. Hey, Falwell, when Jesus has his "second cumming" you better tell that fucknut not to swing through Texas. I'll put that genocidal bowl of sh'it up for the death penalty for crimes against humanity faster than you can say "Molested Alter Boy."
Sometimes they reasoned thus: "The Messiah ought to do such a thing, now Jesus is the Messiah, therefore Jesus has done such a thing." At other times, by an inverse process, it was said: "Such a thing has happened to Jesus; now Jesus is the Messiah; therefore such a thing was to happen to the Messiah."
I am God, so I don't wear no damn underpants. I let my infinite penis dangle in the solar winds. And when I feel the urge I'd stick it up a Black Hole. Now talk about a cosmic knob job! My righteous hairy anus be bare and unobstructed so I can at will seen forth gusts of flatulence to destroy the Atheists, the Homosexuals and the non-submissive females. My buttocks be bare and continually kissed by my believers whom wipe my ass and anoint my hemorrhoids with oil for eternity.
Those who believe in Hell after death tend to create Hell on earth for those who donÆt.
"For God so loved the world that he stopped all floods, droughts and earthquakes, eliminated disease and birth defects, filled men's hearts with a measure of love and wisdom, eliminated hunger, thirst, and want, and ensured an era of peace, progress, and prosperity for humankind that would never end." What? He didn't say that? He didn't do all of that? He didn't do *any* of it? What did he do? He sacrificed himself...to who? Himself? Does that even count? Way to go, God, you really saved the day.
My knees no longer bend for any master or god. If there is someone out there for whom, as you claim, I will bend my knee, it will only be because my knees were broken first.
No. The GOOD news is that there is no "heaven". So all of your "us vs. them" nonsense is only that: NONSENSE. No one group has any special claim to eternity. We are all brothers. We are all in this together. And the sooner you Christians drop your "holier than thou" attitude and start ACTING like we're all in this together, the better it will be for EVERYONE.
With religion, even the village idiot can feel like Einstein.
But I will never forget, that the gods failed us when we believed in them most. And to the fundy that accuses me of causing this, blow it out your ass. I believed in your god when it happened, and your god murdered my other three children, and then tried to take my wife. Science saved my wife and beat the SH*T out of your god. So, if your god is real, it is weak and of no concern to me. If your god is fact, it only survives by killing the smallest and weakest among us, and it's a lust for blood knows no bounds.
(In response to: "That's too bad. If there is no verse found, is it necessarily wrong?" No it's not. It does, though, put it on the same theological plane as "Jesus liked to wave his penis at his pet cat on alternate thursdays", something also not mentioned in the Bible.
To compare human beings with lambs shows exactly how little value fundamentalist Christianity places in humanity.
You see, xian "morality" has nothing to do with ethics or justice. If an act is evil, it's because it pisses off some old guy with a beard sitting on a cloud, not because it hurts real people down here on earth. However you can always cancel out your prior evil acts by bending over and dropping your pants for jeezus. The people you hurt are still hurt, but that doesn't matter. All that matter is that jeezus should keep getting the mindless, obsequious adulation he so desperately craves.
(In response to georgann's statement: "We're not the center of the universe. Jesus is.") No, we are. Consider the *reason* for stick-boy's alleged existence in the first place. Is it to bask in his own greatness? No. Is it to bask in the glow of his own alleged daddy's greatness? No. He allegedly showed up in the first place to be mocked and insulted by the majority of society, followed blindly by a handful of others, hung from a tree and put to sleep for a few days.... all so that *we* can somehow use him as a pathway to self-glorification in an allegedly perfect planned community somewhere out there in unknown space. In other words, we *are* at the center of this universe. This "Jesus" construct is merely a tool to rewarding ourselves for some very, very strange behavior.
Christianity is like having a secret arrangement with a Nazi camp commander that you won't be killed, an arrangement which won't extend to your loved ones, neither family or friends. And an arrangement that, considering the source, you have no proof will be carried out anyway. And Christians are filled with joy about this!
Time to stop being sheep. You either get fleeced, slaughtered, or fu'cked.
(In response to: that the story is a metaphor).
Fine - but, then, why are you worshipping a character in a metaphor?
Bullshit. You're the one proselytizing, trashing and flaming. We merely reply in kind. Did it ever cross your mind that your unwelcome actions in an atheist group may be the reason you're getting trashed and flamed? Surely even that religion-addled mass of inert ganglia that serves you in lieu of a brain has managed by now to grasp the idea that bible thumping isn't appreciated here, so why do you persist? As for atheists proselytizing, while some no doubt do, most don't, and it certainly isn't a "proved tenet of the atheist faith", whatever that might be. I've never yet met an atheist who professed to have "faith." Personally, I don't care what *you* believe as long as you don't try to force *me* to live my life in accordance with your beliefs. I honestly don't give a rat's ass if your religion "teaches" that the universe was mixed from scratch and baked to a delicious golden brown by the Keebler FUC'KING Elves. As long as you keep it to yourself, more power to you. However, if you and your fellow Keeblerists come knocking on my door trying to shove cookies down my throat, or try to force public schools to teach Keeblerism in science classrooms, then the chocolate chips are going to hit the fan.
In the future, please just say "worship my magical sky-daddy or he'll kick your ass". It bears the same sentiment of posthumous racketeering, but is much more concise.
Imagine you're this little maggot living in a pile of sh*t in the carpet. You are aware of all the other maggots living in the pile. Since you are the smartest maggot, you figured a magical sh*t god is the only one that could materialize so much wonderful sh*t. All the other maggots agree with you and pretty soon you become the sh*t priest and get to tell all the new maggots about the Sh*t God. You get to make up all sorts of really wonderful stuff like the Holy Anal Opening and Fumes From Above. The maggots are eating it up. Literally. Soon all the sh*t will be gone so you make it a law that it's a sin the eat sh*t. Then one day the entire sh*t pile is plunged into darkness and you hear a loud, "You fu*cking dog!" Moments later the sh*t pile is destroyed by a big hairy snout and you scream, "It's the Rapture!" and die. And that's what it's like to be a religious type.
You and other theists you know need a holy book to keep you out of the tower with a rifle? A book of instructions on how not to @#%$ it up around other people? A list of things that One Should Not Do In Polite Society? You have to be TOLD not to do murder, not to lie, or steal, or cheat on your wife/husband? Many of us figured it out without help. Pity you can't. While you sit waiting with the shotgun, trying to decide if you should off the neighbor who just whacked off your begonias with a weedeater, do you consult your list of Things One Should Not Do Ever, For It Is Very Bad Juju To Do Them? If you should see a passing god on the street, do you have an overwhelming urge to worship it until you check your list remember that its a no-no? Is your god that weak that he has to tell you not to check out that other god over there? As you sit coveting the neighbor's BMW, do you need a list of rules telling you not to steal it - and nevermind you were coveting in the first place? You people frighten me, you really do.
God does have a very good track record as far as getting mankind to be moral. He puts Adam and Eve into a perfect world, Eden, and they sin. He boots them out into a more cruel world, and wickedness spreads. He kills all of them in a flood, except the good ones. Evil still flourishes. He picks a favored ethnic group, the Jews, but they turn away from Him at the drop of a hat. Finally He decides to make a New Covenant with Jews and Gentiles. They go around killing each other and heathens, torturing people into converting, selling indulgences and Jesus' bones, molesting children (and protecting the perpetrators), promoting slavery, oppressing women, and lying about evolution to protect a failed cosmogony. I imagine things are the same in Heaven. When a football player habitually performs poorly you trade that player. When the whole team habitually performs poorly you fire the coach. I think it's time to hand God the pink slip.
ALL flavours of theism come about due to misconceptions about the nature of reality. In fact, theism is an attempt to tell reality how it SHOULD behave
Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you're told.
Religion is doing what you're told, not matter what is right.
80% of christianity is paganism in drag.
If you believe that everything God is described as doing is perfect because he is God, that's your belief. I have no quibbles with your faith, or even anything offensive that you say, as long as it doesn't impinge upon my rights as a human being and citizen of this country. However, if you want to tell "us" the Truth, I'll give you this one little piece of advice. We do not, and will not, begin with any or all of these expectations:
òò that God's existence is proven by the Bible, by existence itself or as the only alternative for what we cannot currently explain
òò that the Bible is unequivocally and indisputably accurate (in historical, scientific terms, etc) or that it is completely and unquestionably a moral treatise for the ages, or that it has been accurately transmitted by the mere fact of it being the Bible
òò that any human being can "know" what God meant, wants or desires
If you believe these things, it is your prerogative. But be aware how unconvincing they are to those of us who are not members of the choir, and do not insult our intelligence with specious arguments. If the answer is simply that you "believe such and such is true," fine. But this PROVES nothing, nor does it meet your stated goal of drawing us towards the gospel. It, in fact, does nothing but allow you to pat yourself on the back as a toy soldier in God's army -- believe me or else!
1. Your god created the world and everything on it because he loves us.
2. The world has confused and blinded us to the creator's will.
So therefore (by extension), your all-powerful god is the source of this confusion and blindness. Correct? Take this with the "leg-breaker" parable and your assertion that your god's message is only for the chosen few ... Suddenly, your god starts to sound like one really sadistic, capricious, elitist monster.
What baffles me more is, what makes this guy--and every other fundie--think the All Mighty Omnipresent Omnipotent Omniscient needs some phonic little human to defend His existence? Never in the *Bible* did God ask for people to defend his existence. The big guy just sorta laid the smackdown of fire and brimstone on all them mean old sinners himself. These fundies are way too self-important.
In the unlikely event there is a god, and I am "called" to answer to him, my response would be one of extreme anger. An eternity in hell would be worth flipping off such a "god". How could any entity, in the name of love for his creation, justify his barbaric treatment of his people. Think of all the horrible ways there are to die. Think of all the horrible things people have done to each other in "God's" name. Think of most of the OT. To me, this isn't a god worthy of worship, but one worthy of derision and anger. And he is still working on the minds of billions of people of every religion. Think of this when you watch the news tonight, and see something horrible done for religious reasons. Think of the families of the Australians killed in a blast in Bali. So quit babbling about god's perfect love, and look that love in the face and see it for what it really is. It's the ignorant invention of people who didn't know any better.
In Heaven, we no longer sin. Here is my list of possible reasons why:
A. We cannot sin, we no longer have the choice to.B. Because of the awe and wonder of heaven, we no longer wish to sin, and since God can see the future he knows we won't want to.
C. God has destroyed the creator of sin (Satan) and sin itself, so we can't sin.
a. Now, the first one obviously flies in the face of the excuse for hell: God wanted us to have the free choice to love him or not. If he wants us to have free choice and then takes it away form us in heaven, this is absurd... earth was just an excuse to throw people in hell!
b. Let's look at the second one now: We are all so in awe of God and heaven, we don't want to sin anymore! Yippee! So my question to that is: why didn't God merely put us in heaven in the first place? If it's great enough to make us not want to sin, then he could have skipped the crispy-sinner part of the whole deal. Once again, hell was not needed.
c. Finally, let's look at the last position. This one is almost too easy. Why didn't God destroy sin and Satan, and then create us? As well, this is really just rephrasing the first reason, because once sin is destroyed we have no choice but to follow God! Once again, hell just doesn't make sense.
There's always the card of "Well, our simple human minds just can't understand it" card that people pull. Of course, that's complete BS on many levels, but I'll just leave it at this: If God created me with a sense of reason that will only send me to hell, I would rather be there than with him.
I hate being UNDER GOD. What if I want to be on top?
So, if it is the "non-specific God of ceremonial deism", no one will mind if I call God an evil, arrogant, murderous fu'ck who doesn't deserve a fart in the face, much less any appreciation, worship or devotion? I mean, I'm not referring to any *specific* God, after all.
But you give your children the next chance to obey the rules, right? You give feedback at every opportunity, including clear and unambiguous instruction, rewards and punishment, babysitters while you are out, new rules when the old ones did not cover all situations, and gradually wean them out into independence and freedom. You don't just watch them until they're 21, then choose the best one to inherit everything, and the worst one to be killed. You don't only give the rules and punishments and feedback to the Chosen Child, hoping that he will be generous enough to share with the others and lead them to correct behavior.
The God who is to be the object of our adoration and imitation is depicted to us as a judge who will grant vengeance in answer to incessant prayer, as a father who loves and honors the favorite prodigal and neglects the faithful and obedient worker, as an employer who pays no more for a life-time than for the nominal service of a death-bed repentance, as an unreasonable master who reaps where he has not sown and punishes men because he made them defective and gave them no instructions, as a harsh despot who delivers disobedient servants to tormentors and massacres those who object to his rule, as a judge who is merciful to harlots and relentless towards unbelievers, as a petulant king who drives beggars and outcasts into the heaven which is ignored by the wise and worthy, as a ruler of the universe who freely permits his enemy the devil to sow evil and then punishes his victims, as a God who plunges men in the flames of hell and calmly philosophizes over the reward of the blest who from Abraham's bosom behold the sight and are not permitted to bestow even so much as a drop of cold water to cool the parched tongues of their fellow-creatures amidst hopeless and unending agonies, in comparison with which all earthly sufferings are but momentary dreams.
-- W. P. Ball, quoted from John E. Remsberg, The Christ, pp. 310-11
